Budget cap scandal 'really bad' for F1 teams says Danner
Oct.12 - The budget cap scandal is "really bad" not just for Red Bull, but for all of the Formula 1 teams.
The sport has found itself in a deep quandary after the FIA found that the top team of the past two seasons breached the 2021 budget cap by less than 5 percent.
The penalties are now being negotiated.
Christian Danner
"It will be very difficult to find an appropriate penalty," said former F1 driver Christian Danner. "But I can imagine that points will be deducted."
Aston Martin was also found to be in 'procedural' breach of the spending limits.
"It's really bad for everyone involved," Danner told Servus TV. "Formula 1 and the teams want to work profitably, but this level of profitability can only be guaranteed over the next few years if the budget cap is adhered to.
"Otherwise we'll go back to where we were years ago."
But what Danner says is not in doubt is that Max Verstappen deserves both his 2021 and 2022 titles.
"Last year you could have said that two drivers deserved it - Verstappen and Hamilton," he said. "But not this time.
"In all circumstances, including Suzuka in the rain or when he had tyre problems, Max put in one top performance after the other. And there's a lot that goes into that."
Finally, he rubbished claims that the FIA favoured an early title win for Verstappen at Suzuka by deciding so quickly to penalise Charles Leclerc for his last-lap scrap with Sergio Pérez.
"Of course you have this whining every time," said Danner, "but the foul was a clear thing - everyone could see that. Of course it had to be punished."
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Cheating is cheating. Red Bull have 2 fantastic drivers, it’s sad for them to be tainted by a corrupt team.
If an athlete takes performance enhancing drugs their out, if a team cheats they should be out but no chance of that , cheating is in the Fia’s dna.
To talk about under 5million as minor is crap and they know it really.
Just stating the obvious.Ironically the competition is so poor they probably didn’t need to cheat.
Red Bull are disputing they are over the limit. It is too early to say they are guilty, wait until that is finalised. We don't even know exactly how much it is , it may only
be a few thousand over.
What is it with people these days accepting guilt just because an allegation is made.
Blo ,your full of it , Firstly you've no idea how much the overspend is , 2nd you've no idea what the overspend was on and 3rd, 2019 Ferrari were caught out and not punished at all,4th Are you seriously comparing
a famine to f1 now,, finally they haven't committed fraud, so why the stupid ref to jail, it doesn't matter either way you stirring up bullshit, it'll be mid season before anything happens, because if RB don't like it theres the Panel , then the court of Appeal .
Firstly Stroppy I think wer’e all full of it on this site. Second the amount of overspend or what it was on is irrelevant, it’s cheating. Third 2019 Ferrari, also cheating as my ref fia cheating. 2021 more cheating, previously with Flavio now reemployed! It’s endemic in F1 to the extent that it’s now considered by many to be normal.
"shroppyfly said on October 11, 2022 at 09:42
That's disappointing, no matter whether you think W was a good idea or not. 6/8M peanuts, Rb overspend that in a year"
Pot meet Kettle
Sorry just couldn’t resist 😁😁
For a Spy , your rubbish at detecting Sarcasm....or maybe you aren't...lol
I’m the master of sarcasm the post was tongue in cheek.
Please get on with this boring saga. We know all top teams went over the budget cap for sure.
Mercedes and Ferrari just have the very convenient situation, that they are there own engine supplier and can solve some budget problems by creative accounting...
Does that make it ok? And in any case RB are joined at the hip to Honda and claim to be engine manufacturers.
I just don't really care about how much money the team spend.
When Totoya joined F1, they had a budget of 1 Billion a year and never became champion and if I'm correct, they didn't won a single GP.
It's not about the money, it's about the people and team spirit.
I think calling your own car a sh*tbox on international broadcast isn't very good for your team spirit...
"we know all know top teams went over the budget cap for sure "
NO we don't, Ferrari and Mercedes passed and got the certificate so unless you are the FIA account you know nothing.
i think RB probably went over the cap due the Kamikaze Merc antics which wrote off two cars, it obviously does matter how much or we wouldn't be talking about minor overspends under 5%. Endemic so , surely all the teams went over then if you call overspend-cheating, Correct Les a I too also tried to point out As for engine manufacturing, The AR engine may have in red crackle paint Alfa Romeo on the heads, but its made by Ferrari, want more examples, do your homework BloJ
Remind me again, who owns AR and Ferrari? And if RB are totally exonerated I will be delighted both for RB and especially their two drivers.
I was merely pointing out that likeMB, Fer, and Alp, RB also make their own engines.
When the RB owner pops his clogs will Red Bull become Honda sponsored by RB?
Blo, I cant believe im saying this but the Engines for this, and last, and very possibly futures years under the agreement with Honda the (ill put in capitals so you cant miss it) COME FROM JAPAN, any chance you'll get it now and stop saying Rb are engine manufacturers
What do you mean who owns Ferrari ? Ferrari own Ferrari..!
What do mean who owns AR?, nope I've lost interest now , just look it up yourself
Well just as I thought, so Red Bull Powertrains was probably set up to get round the budget cap and not to build engines at all as was originally claimed by Horner.
My research tells me that the majority shareholder of both Fer (80%) and AR (100%?) is Fiat Chrysler. All in the same family then.
Get around the budget by setting up Rbpt, hows that work? when as from next yr there is an engine budget for mfrs So even more scrutiny, Rbpt,dyo think was more likely set up because the only likely source of engines for RB+AT would have been a customer Renpine engine.
So,as for your 81% Your source please?
Shrop, you potentially get round the cap by transferring some of your employees to Rbpt.
Source Ferrarilakeforest.com. Complicated as they say because Fiat sold 80% to their own shareholders.
I wonder if RB played Porsche against Honda like Ferrari did Ford to get the best deal out of Fiat in the film.
Boy, a lot of bickering here over a simple challenge. Drivers and engines are already exempt from the cap, so it's really a sham. If a team exceeds even the sham number, fine the team $100 million and deduct the cheat number from next year's budget. If they do it a second time, double the penalties. A third time, exclude them from competition for a season.
Curious if any team could survive even a second of your punitive assessment? I'd not like to see that.
Yet another rumour is that RB popped the cap with catering. Not sure how that enhances the car on track, but what do I know?
Shropfly made an interesting point about the level of damage RB sustained due to the antics of the desperate pit maneuver prowess of Dame Louise. Most teams didn't have to endure that - well, Haas from their own...
"Yet another rumour is that RB popped the cap with catering."
Flav' (love the screen name), if there are, let's say, 27 entries on a financial statement it is impossible to say that any one line busted the budget. Are RB's entertainment costs excessive?...no doubt, but $$$ could be cut from other expenses if that is their desire. No matter, a huge punitive penalty should be part of the cap reg's. I'm not declaring RB guilty, just making an excessive spending observation. I have long been opposed to OEM's and big buck entities tarnishing the essence of our sport.
I’m with you ROR, but only stopping teams from winning by cheating will stop them cheating and it must be retrospective otherwise they will just buy themselves out of trouble. A cheating team who ever they are should be stripped of points and banned for at least half the following season.
But
This is not a sport it is a spectacle for making the most money possible.Rules are just an inconvenience.
Ten teams in f1 , half found guilty , gonna be a short pit walk...geezz
No problem. They would be exonerated because the rules would be to difficult to understand.and the other five would be penalised for being clever dicks.
ReallyOldRacer - I better understand your take, and can accept that. It could be argued there needs to be some devil may care spending to maintain(?) the majesty of the event - the problem being the disparity to the also rans is too pronounced. It's certainly complex, but I don't desire to see spec cars.
Cheers!
Ferrari- public Co, big maj or shares owned by public at time of ipo to fc employees, but owned by the public..!, transferring employees works ONCE...!, the next year?, the very likely many millions they've spent on rnpt , id say they are serious wouldn't you, , p*ss off Honda, p*ss off Porsche and end up with a Renault engine seriously.! Bored of this crap now
Likewise, but someone has to keep you stroppy Shroppy.❤️
IMO, I think we should all settle down & let the fia do the job that they have been asked to do. Last year, there were team principles arguing and telling the fia what & what not to do, which they should adhere to,, where & when they should should simply ignore the protests from team principles, drivers, commentators & suchlike and make their own decisions,, so RB went over the cost cap minor error,, which certainly doesn't warrant the drivers being penalised. I personally would not agree with Max passing the 2021 championship to sir Lulu because someone other than the fia want that to happen.
Presumably you would be quite happy if it was the other way round,Lewis handing the trophy to Max.Because as we’ve heard so many times ‘he deserved it’. Not because he won fairly according to the correct application of the rules.
Yes your absolutely right Blo,, without going into the whole 2021 saga things went the way they did and there were consequences, like Masi getting sacked,, and what I'm saying now is to let the Fia handle it and to not be influenced by anyone else such as Toto, Binotto, brundle,,, f1 reviews, press, it's a new Fia team & what they say goes whether we like it or not.
Quite right Don
We need more clear thinkers like you. You’r a beacon of unbiased common sense and reason. Keep it up.
Ferrari outsourced, I think it was gearboxes, to, I think it was Hass. Hass is based on England, but, lo and behold, the gearboxes are made in Italy. Many of people designing the gearboxes were reassigned by Ferrari to work for Hass. If we want to discuss cheating, we should consider this arrangement carefully.