Haas F1 team boss calls for budget cap breach consequences
Oct.20 - There "must be consequences" for Red Bull after the dominant Formula 1 team was found to have breached the 2021 budget cap.
In Austin this weekend, a major talking point will be the likely penalties, which according to the FIA are "currently" being discussed behind closed doors.
This week, it emerged that McLaren supremo Zak Brown wrote a letter to FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem that accused Red Bull of "cheating".
Guenther Steiner, Team Principal, Haas F1
"The events cast a bad light on the sport," the Woking based team's boss Andreas Seidl has now told Sport Bild magazine.
"Clear violations must be clearly punished."
The German acknowledged, however, that it must first be clarified "whether someone spent too much on catering or whether they got a clear advantage in the performance of the car".
But even former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, who was historically close to Red Bull, admitted that the likely penalty will in fact be "worse" than a mere fine.
Haas team boss Gunther Steiner told RTL ahead of the US GP: "There are regulations and they have to be followed.
"There must be consequences," he insisted.
However, he admitted that he doesn't know in what areas Red Bull overspent and how close it was to the 5 percent 'minor' threshold, which could be as much as $7 million.
"I think the FIA must take action," he said.
"It doesn't have to be tomorrow but it does need to be worked through so we set a sign for the future that no one else can do it or you don't just get an advantage by breaking the rules and paying a fine.
"But I think it has to be very carefully thought about how it is approached."
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Gunfighter said on October 19, 2022 at 19:44
Fascinating. A Mercedes customer loudly agreeing with Toto Wolff's position.
And now Haas, sorry Ferrari powered Haas wolves
But a bit of common sense from Andreas, those sensible Germans Grrr , .Like I told the board , its humble pie for the whingers.....
Get Liz Truss(UK PM) to sort it out.
Same & fitting consequences.
I can’t help thinking Lib are missing a trick here.
No meaningful penalty, season over with 4races left. Other teams not going to bust a gut for nothing. Big drop in revenue.
Disqualify RB , self righteous upholders of fair play AND massive revenue boost to the rest of the season.
Max/Bull fans may not agree!
Catering is just another line item in a budget. Makes no difference where the excess spending is allocated. The total spend is should be the only consideration. FIA should not muck up previous or current point standings. As good as RB are they could probably win in a wheelbarrow. A huge ($100m) fine and '23 cap reduction should do the job. It seems that they cheated on budget, but what is best for our sport?
Fia must publish the amount of overspend. If it was truly insignificant then a hefty fine would be fair.
If the amount is enough to make even a small potential improvement in performance the only option is disqualification even if the overspend was unintentional.
Any potential gain from the overspend would be a potential advantage in every future race. As shroppy has already said I think, this is destined for the courts unless RB accept they are at fault.
The fact that their wheelbarrow as ROR says is so much faster than all the others doesn’t help. As GR said .6 sec just on the straights.
Even Bernie a Red Bull fan sees how this has to play out.
This is petulant and stupid. 1) The FIA pre-decided that a 5% overspend would define a major breech, and, anything less would constitute a minor breech. If you recklessly and irresponsibly bandy about "exclusion" for a minor breech, pray tell what the punishment could be meted out for a major breech? Exclusion from F1??? Further, if "exclusion" was the punishment, shouldn't the teams been pre-notified about the severity of the consequences? If overspending a dollar is a death penalty offense, for even unintentional breeches, then, shouldn't teams know that in advance so that they can target a 143 million spend??? Face facts, Red Bull won not because they cheated, or because they had an unfair advantange, but, rather, Red Bull won because they had Adrian Newey and Max Verstappen.
Agree with everything, the media and teams(desperate) and are just stirring things, om here Blo is the major stirrer, light hearted or bitter ? but its wasted energy.A bit of copy and paste now------ Face facts, Red Bull won not because they cheated, or because they had an unfair advantage, but, rather, Red Bull won because they had Adrian Newey and Max Verstappen .
No, catering is an expense different in kind. It would be entirely appropriate to say the constructor and individual driver winning teams are entitled to a victory party above and beyond the cap. In fact, the FIA ought to make that modification.
I smell all the underachieving bumholes baying for blood
The green eye of envy is not a good look
They should concentrate on their failings which are many
0.6 because Merc built a wheelbarrow this yr
Dear FIA Geniuses, c.c. to Mr Steiner;
You are all so powerful that you can of course take away Max's 2021 World Championship.
The problem is that you will never be able to take away the fact that Max won the 2021 World Championship.
So good luck with all that crap, but about now would be a good time to move on.
Supremo Zak Brown , if Zaks a supremo? , then CH is a genius, agreed TP oh and all the bonuses have been paid, so who loses lol thats right no one, except the rest of the field in 21, 22 and yep 23>>>
We don't even know how much the overspend was exactly and wjat is was for but if reported by one media outlet it relates to whether Newey was an employee or not that means it was not a deliberate breach it is just on interpretation.
And I repeat where was the RB advantage Merc had the fastest car at the end of the last year. I hope FIA don't listen to other teams or drivers bleating about the severe sanction.
If I was Mateschitz if they come down hard I would withdraw RB and leave the sport. FIA at fault for not making the interpretation clear.
To HAM shut up MAX won the WDC last year, you lost , It was only fair you lost after the dangerous driving by you at Silverstone where it could have resulted in serious injury or worse to MAX.
Not stirring, i agree with you , but its an ermm Accountants interpretation, your worship, your honour, appeal panel, court of appeal .I particularly agree about the Txt the Doc will have sent to the Fia, lets face it RB+AT+HONDA major players in the championship, if the Doc wants to play dirty he should release a statement saying RBPT are/WERE looking at supplying another team with Engines BUT.... Blackmails a powerful tool . Imo
Publish each teams budget spent on development of their car. Then we will see if any advantage was gained. If no advantange gained move on .
This is a huge mess that with hindsight could have been avoided. There was never any need for a cap, this is a multi billion industry not a playground for minor players with limited millions.
The only hope for a solution will have to come from the major manufacturers by agreement not blackmail. Failing that I see little hope for F1.
Re two points, if it was all down to Adrian and Max and their undoubted brilliance, what took them so long? Did you forget the Masi factor.
Re Silverstone, the extent of Mad Max’s dangerous driving in 2021 was awe inspiring. Perhaps you didn’t notice.
In 2020 LH 8 pp MV 0 pp, In 2021 LH 2 pp MV 7pp Swings and Roundabouts in the f1 playground, its teams that Blackmail, not engine Mfrs, or have you forgotten Ferraris veiled threat to leave f1?
Ror keeps on reminding me , don't bother with facts , I just can't help myself sometimes
The acrimony in the current F1 environment is unsustainable. None of us know the facts - how much were they over, and what was it spent on. None of us know the criteria for determining punitive action, either.
The acrimony demonstrated by Frankenstein (Steiner), Toto, Bin-Bin and others appear to be an attempt to influence he decision-makers at the FIA. They seem to forget that F1 is a very small world, and pissing in the pickle jar harms everyone, not just Red Bull.
Some here are suggesting that Red Bull be disqualified, or even booted out of F1 - I.E - "Cancelled". Removing a leg from a three-leg stool doesn't work very well and would spell the end of F1. So, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
Except, it was clearly designated that a 5% overspend was the criteria separating a major and minor overspend.
The last company i worked for used to do a lot of business one day before 5th April yr , the end of that tax yr, and every phone call went like this , Hi can i order £5k worth of product , but i need an invoice date that's a week/two weeks ago, IE to reduce there tax liability for that yr, yes we accommodated them course we did, now my point is how many large value invoices I wonder get left out of this yrs budget cap and popped into next yrs just to hit target, It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest, and as has been said before if one does it then all do it/similar, thats business.....This lesson has been brought to you by the Fia accredited, Ror School of Accountancy... lol
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