Race steward says Verstappen could have won last Sunday's GP
Mar.31 - Bahrain GP steward and former F1 driver Emanuele Pirro info says Max Verstappen may have won last Sunday's race if he had refused to hand back the lead to Lewis Hamilton.
The 'tracks limits' issue is back with a bang early in 2021, after Mercedes' Hamilton ran wide at turn four on 30 different occasions before being told to stop.
"Hamilton went over the track limits a bit too often, creating a repeated advantage," Pirro, who was on duty in the stewards' room last weekend, told Corriere dello Sport.
"That's why Michael Masi, the only one with the authority to talk to the teams, called Mercedes to warn them."
However, stewards had strictly deleted laps for similar infractions in qualifying, causing confusion in the Red Bull garage.
"I don't know how it got to the point where people were doing it without getting warnings," said Verstappen.
Team boss Christian Horner agreed: "It was frustrating. We questioned with race control that if that's the case, can we do it? In a nip and tuck battle, there's a two-tenths advantage using that part of the circuit.
"You can't say it's ok to use it in the race, but you can't overtake out there. It should be black or white - it shouldn't be grey," the Red Bull chief added.
Indeed, when Verstappen passed Hamilton for the lead, Masi immediately got on the radio to tell Red Bull that he would have to hand back the place.
Dr Helmut Marko says the Dutchman was happy to oblige.
"According to Max, it was the right thing to do. He was already slowing down when the message from the race director arrived," he told Servus TV.
"I have no idea what would have happened if we hadn't returned the position to Hamilton," said Marko.
However, Verstappen hinted after the race that he was actually unhappy that he gave the place back to Hamilton.
"I would rather finish first with a penalty than second in this way," he said. "That's just how I am. Not everyone has to agree with it."
FIA steward Pirro clarified that while Masi can suggest that a driver should hand a place back to avoid a potential penalty, it is not mandatory.
"A race director will never oblige anything - he can only suggest it," said the Italian. "Verstappen gave back the place and we did not have to deal with the case anymore."
But in a major blow to Red Bull, Pirro also suggested that the maximum penalty Verstappen would have been given was a five second time penalty - potentially enough for him to have kept the race win.
"If Verstappen had not returned the position, he would always have received a maximum of a five seconds penalty," Pirro confirmed.
Luigi Mazzola, the former head of Ferrari's test team, admitted he was surprised by the way Red Bull handled the critical situation.
"If I had been Red Bull, I would have thought twice about that decision and challenged it," he told Italy's Autosprint. "Given what Hamilton did during the race, I expected Red Bull to fight it harder.
"Perhaps they thought Verstappen would easily be able to get the place back."
Marko confirmed: "Hamilton was smart. He let himself be overtaken and then got the position back. As a result, Max's tyres - which were already degraded - picked up the dust and he couldn't attack him again."
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Boo hooo! The bottom line is Max exceeded track limits approximately 26 times at T-4 as well during the race. In fact, every driver except Maz, did so. So stop crying and remember, it was Red Bull(shyt) who sensitized Race Control to heighten its observations at T-4. Now, RB is lamenting that they behaved passive/aggressively.
These arguments are always fun. Seems that we are making three assumptions. One, HAM would have just waved VET goodbye and not challenged. Two, Vet would not have made one of his bozo mistakes.. Three, Vet would have actually gained the 5 seconds. Not bad assumptions, but we don't race on maybes.
Vet??
Oops. I meant VER, not VET.
I wonder what would have happened if it was the otherway around and HAM would have to let VER by. Would he have done that?
No, he would not.
The pit wall (Horner) sat there and watched Hamilton exceed track limits for 30 laps?
If they would have called the stewards immediately, Hamilton would not have been gaining 2/10 per lap for 30 laps. Hypothetically: Hamilton has to stop violating after the second time: 2/10 x 28 laps = 5.6 sec. He was already behind 2 sec. when he undercut. If he. only lost 4 seconds, that still puts him back 6 secs. The undercut would have had to come much sooner or if Lewis pits when he did, Max, with 6 secs. in hand, will remain in the lead if he pits right after Hamilton does. I believe Max would have been closer to 8-10 secs. ahead if Hamilton didn't exceed. None the less, lame for Red Bull to sit there and watch that happen.
C'mon folks, the ONLY driver to not exceed track limits at T4 was Mspin and that's only because he didn't make it that far.
Ha! Mazespin was turned around in his seat groping insude the engine box! ;)
I'm just happy that someone besides a teammate can battle for the title this year. I can't wait for the next race. It's the first time I've felt this way since the turbo hybrid era started.
Hamilton just made it very hard for Verstappen to overtake him. That's just also his skill. Verstappen just has to up his game and not let Hamilton outsmart him.
Agreed JV. I'm at least glad that Verstappen has a car capable of beating the Mercs. The rest is up to him. The only other time I remember the Mercs having some competition was in 2017-2018 with Ferrari but even then they needed some luck to have a real chance. So far, this year's Red Bull looks like an actual contender on par with them. Hope we have a good title fight this year.
VERS had him. HAM pushed him off. No need to give it back.
Also, this site sux now, font is so small it can barely be read... And crammed with ads!
Booo!
Hi Swede, thank you for your feedback. Can you please tell me the device you experience the small font on? We made some adjustments just now.
LG G4, which has a very large screen. It was bad before, but barely legible now..
I think the FIA is to blame for all this, if , IF they made rules AND stuck to them the white line is the edge of the track if you go over it then your off the track, doesn't matter if you gain or not give a penalty if it was a wall they wouldn't go there would they! The drivers wouldn't go over if it didn't pay them to in some way.
The FIA is bringing F1 into confusion not the teams or drivers, they are trying to please everyone which we all know you can not.
Rant over.....
Just put foam blocks or gravel out there... Advantage gone.
Have a camera shot of every car on every lap available to the stewards in real time and punish every transgression through T4 (or wherever else applicable, like T4 in Canada, etc) by half a second per lap. That would end the frivolity pretty soon.
Foam blocks just outside the red curbing (1 car width off the track) would work fine. Lile real walls at some other tracks... Reset them if knocked down.
Exactly Swede. The run off is there for safety reasons. Foam blocks would show liberties taken but how would they be replaced when destroyed.
So, police it without exception or allow the circuit to be five lanes wide at those bends with runoffs.
Maybe gravel traps are the way to go although by their presence, they would remove the corner as an (outside) passing opportunity; just run the other guy wide into the gravel.
Foam blocks won't work. A gravel trap will destroy Bahrain T4 as an overtaking spot (but what the hell, there are 20 overtaking spots at each and every F1 track, so why not destroy this one, ha-ha-ha).
Here's the deal: Use cameras to add half a second a lap per track-leaving incident for every car, and 5 seconds for leaving the track to overtake, if overtaking takes place ON THE OUTSIDE LINE, as happened in Hungary 2013 when Grosjean overtook Massa quite splendidly and magnificently - incidentally, also at T4. What is it with T4's?
Even Massa thought the penalty on Grosjean was unnecessary. It was a hard, clean and fair battle and Romain only left the track to avoid being hit by Felipe, as Max only left the track to avoid being hit by Lewis.
F1 is starved of overtaking. Yet, when it takes place, the gutsy, ballsy, adventurous drivers get penalized!
Great thinking, F1. Great thinking!!!
I like the technical approach to adding time penalties with enforcement cameras.
But as for gutsy, ballsy adventurous overtaking, how is that applicable to using the no risk run off area. However, when it is achieved whilst narrowly avoiding a gravel trap, you are talking titanic testes.
If you think that "illegal" overtaking manoeuvres (i.e. those completed with all four wheels outside track perimeters) cannot be gutsy, ballsy and adventurous, I'll refer you to just two of them: Grosjean on Massa, in Hungary 2013; and Verstappen on the inside of Kimi, USA 2017.
The wider point, though, is this: If drivers KNOW that they can attempt such a pass, the penalty being 5 seconds and nothing more, they will be encouraged to at least try it more often. This will lead to more spectacular racing.
But point taken about the gravel trap. Maybe, at T4 in Bahrain, there could be a strip of tarmac beyond the track limits, to be used for those quick enough to overtake - and 5 metres beyond the track limits a gravel trap.
With a lot of cameras on T4, it would cover everything we need to encourage hard racing: Cameras to pick out offenders, a strip of tarmac to entice overtaking (at the cost of 5 seconds if you put all 4 wheels beyond track limits) and a gravel trap to make it really difficult.
This has to stop now its high time the stewards were consistent with their ruling the white line is the track limit if you cross it( and the rule should be if you put TWO wheels over the white line) never mind whether you gain an advantage or not you have broken the rule and exceeded track limits simple! Enforce it on every corner on every circuit!!
Very good; we meet in the middle. I have been holding back about Grosjean but you mention him again.
For me he has always exemplified a dangerous imbalance between balls and brains or perhaps more accurately courage and talent. He was often a danger to others as much as himself. Though not a fan, I was of course horror struck by his latest ( hopefully last) crash and delightedly relieved when he made it out.
Incidentally, the insouciant manner in which he handle interviews after his many disastrous outing was quite something though in fairness, not exclusive to him in the Paddock.
If Alex A had been able to master that “front” in public, rather than his sad, apologetic approach, he might still be in F1.
Very well summed up. I agree with you on Grosjean (and Alex A, for that matter. It always amazed me that he was so apologetic, although the flip side is that it was refreshing to see a driver - or anybody in motor racing for that matter- who tried to be honest and self-critical).
I'm not a Grosjean fan at all. But go back to that pass on Massa and it sums up everything we've been talking about. It took a fair bit of talent and a lot of guts to bring that one off. It was exhilirating and beautiful to behold. It was what racing is supposed to be about.
And then the stewards took it away, negated it, killed it off. All because those in the pound seats cannot come up with a proper solution to a basic problem: how to make F1 cars overtake each other.
Step One: Encourage passing like that, by introducing rules to make it count.
As another example of how lethargic officialdom is: How long did it take them to come up with the current quali format?Ross Brawn suggested it way back when. But no, in the mean time they've had this, that and the other: drivers dropping off the timing sheets, one car at a time, etc etc.
For how long did Berger warn about The Wall. But no, Senna had to die first. And what kind of a mess did we get on 6 Oct 2014?
The rules were pretty clear in Saturday's Race Director's Notes, and track limits were NOT to be monitired, so HAM & VER were both 'legal' to go out to the artificial turf EXCEPT to overtake: https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/31157724/f1-track-limits-confusion-explained-bahrain-grand-prix
Not totally correct. That might have been the case when they started the race. But three-quarters into the race Mercedes was warned that Hamilton should stop doing it.
Also: A debate on what the rules were, is one thing. But it is something else to ask: WHY were the rules like that, in the first place? And why can't F1 come up with a rule that will reward Max for what he managed to do to Lewis in Bahrain. Max was clearly in front when they started braking for the corner. He was clearly in front one-third and one-half and one-three-quarter of the way through the corner. And he was clearly ahead at the end of it.
Why not introduce judgement by camera, as I have suggested in an earlier post, apply the necessary penalties after the race, and let the drivers get on with it?
We want to see racing, not you-first, no,no, you first, etc.
Ahreed. Max was pushed out after winning the corner, and should have kept the lead. I don't think a bunch of cameras will be interesting at all...
F1 will take every change to make their races boring.
Less politics more racing, end to general rules and Hamilton rules.
white track limits if they are there shoudl be observed full stop
howver why not woden some corner like t4 and have just the white line thne grass of gravel and if they ht that on way past they wil either slide or slow down --i see F1 diffculty as thsi may cause passing car to twist or slide into the legitimate car being passed but
one you have had a couple of the break a wing or two it woudl stop daft passes
however defending shoudl only be allowed on way in if a car is past half way the defender shoudl not be allowed to drift outward
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