Red Bull says team will push for Hamilton penalty
Dec.6 - Dr Helmut Marko has vowed to keep fighting Mercedes as hard off the track as Max Verstappen is fighting Lewis Hamilton wheel-to-wheel on the track.
The top Red Bull official hit out at Toto Wolff and Hamilton's accusations of a "brake test" by Verstappen that resulted in contact and a penalty.
According to team boss Christian Horner, "all decisions were against us today".
"That was already the case in Qatar," he said.
"I hate to say it, but Formula 1 is missing Charlie Whiting today," Horner added. "A man with that level of experience was needed here under these circumstances."
Many, though, sided against Verstappen for his supposed over-the-top aggression - including Mercedes' Wolff.
"We could have been out a couple of times with a broken wing," said the Mercedes team boss.
"I don't want to wash dirty laundry right here, but it must be evaluated and analysed. It is very, very hard and perhaps over the edge.
"We just want to have a clean championship and the best one wins. If it's Max, I'll be at peace with myself. But it has to be a fair game."
Marko, though, also kept his season-long dispute with Wolff in the highest gear.
"First we can defuse this so-called brake test which Hamilton was so upset about," he told Sky Deutschland. "I've hardly ever seen anything so weird.
"No change in brake pressure can be seen on our data. Hamilton just miscalculated. Then we get a penalty and Max's tyres were damaged with two big cuts.
"We had to be happy just to to cross the finish line."
The 78-year-old Austrian believes Red Bull is also being treated unfairly by the stewards.
"It can't go on like this," Marko insisted.
"As soon as Max shows his teeth, he gets a penalty, but if Hamilton pushes him off the track, apparently nothing is wrong.
"It cannot continue like that. It is unacceptable," he told Servus TV.
"At the moment we are going to evaluate everything and report to the FIA about certain things."
Marko also told Bild newspaper: "We hope there will be a new assessment if we can substantiate our point of view with facts - and then hopefully there will be a punishment on Hamilton's side."
When asked if he is at the centre of the toughest world championship fight of all time, he answered: "Senna versus Prost was just one race where they crashed in Suzuka.
"We have been fighting these duels with Mercedes for months. But it cannot be that there are only one-sided decisions in such a duel."
As for what he expects for the Abu Dhabi finale, which Verstappen and Hamilton head into level on points, Marko said: "First of all, I hope today's result is analysed again and, in the best case, revised.
"But we have to win the race."
Finally, he said he isn't bothered if Red Bull fails to beat Mercedes to the constructors' world championship.
"They (Mercedes) made a massive leap for that today," admitted Marko, "but our focus is on the drivers' championship. We are not a car company."
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What a lying, twisted, sh*t stirring plank Helmut Marko is. According to the stewards release who looked at the data from Max's car there was 69bar of brake pressure applied. Anything that comes out of this guys mouth is fake news.
Chrishitian Horner coming on the radio to Max, to say that he didn't understand why Lewis had run into the back of him. Such a lie. I think trying to pre-empt Stewards looking at the telemetry. Still, you know what they say, Red Bull gives you whinge
Linda , wouldn't you think with Lew
knowing what Max is like he'd have given him that extra bit of a wide berth???
Hes said it often enough , personally i think max did slow down using the g box and brakes and Ham just miss judged his overtake, i mean there was no need for Ham to even be remotely that close directly behind Max he could have been 2 ft to his left
Course its fun and games its F1
For those of us who want to find excuses for MV's actions and lay the blame on LH, I suggest that you think about the following for a moment: LH crashes into the back of MV and there is not a single comment, exclamation or gesture from either Max, his race engineer or CH? Contrast that with LH's radio comments and TW's Headphone banging reaction. The RB I know would have been on the phone to MM straightaway to complain about LH trying to "destroy" MV.
I think that MV intentionally brake-tested LH (and this has been borne out by the telemetry data and the stewards' decision), to compromise his car. He then immediately took off to try and put a minimum of 5 seconds distance between himself and LH in order to negate the 5 seconds penalty.
So, Miss Lidja... Why DID Lewis run into the back of a slower car rather than going around?
Seems pretty poor driving to me.
And now for the truth. This is from the FIA after looking at the data "However, the sudden braking by the driver of Car 33 was determined by the Stewards to be erratic and hence the predominant cause of the collision and hence the standard penalty of 10 seconds for this type of incident, is imposed." Note the use of the word braking on a 200 mph corner.
Effectively no penalty, no wonder horner is keeping quiet. MV cheated and got away with it, almost certainly will try it again.
Pay attention to Max's steering movement.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Km4em3VHTnE
Correction 2% #stillwewhinge
You don't have to move across the track, in both directions and then slow down to walking pace and finally brake hard to let a car past. Marko and Max, all you have to do is move off the racing line, lift for a second. The guy behind can easily see whats happening and they come through on the part of the track you have vacated. Every other racer is able to do this EXCEPT Max Verstappen. The way Max is driving someone will get hurt. The FIA must say or do something other than lip service or Max will just ram Lewis off the track. He doesn't care if both don't finish. The FIA's failure to deal with Max's reckless and un-sporting on track antics has put Lewis in a terribly vulnerable position.
Eddie, apply for a steward's job as your comment is on the money
What happened on back straight I feel both were at fault Max was told to let Hamilton through for me Verstappen slowed to much so 10s penalty was fine in saying that Hamilton is also at fault if you look back Hamilton had about 3 seconds to move to the left i get that Mercedes hadn't told him max was letting him through but he had 3 seconds to move to the left and by the time he does he hits Max I personally believe Hamilton deserved a reprimand for it turn 1 incident 5s fair I want Verstappen to win but I'm not a max fan I support Vettel so trying to be bias free
The question is "Why didn't Lewis go around a slow car in front of him, instead of hitting it?"
Period.
Where, in any rules or of his training or years of experience does it say to hit a slower car?
Ridiculous...
The fact is that Max Verstappen makes F1 exciting again. Without him, there was no fight. This sport needs him. Imagine no MV, and it’d be boring, race after race, year after year.
We all want to see gladiators fighting for the crown, so don’t be whiney about who’s right or wrong. This is top entertainment we’ll be longing for in the years to come.
The question is "Why didn't Lewis go around a slow car in front of him, instead of hitting it?"
Period.
Where, in any rules or of his training or years of experience does it say to hit a slower car?
Ridiculous...
Ever tried going round car on 200 mph corner that has just applied brakes as you approached it, thought not.
There are plenty of rules against braking so as the car behind goes into you. Period!
It was on a straight, not a corner. If you bother to watch the videos, he had plenty of time...
As for the rest of your comments, have you ever driven a car at 200? 150? 100? thought not. But who cares?
Lets try to keep to the facts here...
The driver of the day? Without Max, F1 would be boring. This is what all F1 fans were waiting for. Don't blame or accuse, this is sports on the limit. Be happy to see two of the greatest drivers in history fighting. You’ll never forget this season. The past 5 years were the most boring F1 years. This year is delivering what we, F1 fans, were waiting for.
Who is responsible for Hamilton not being told that Max was letting him through? You cannot blame that on Max or Red Bull. If Max was notified, why wasn't Hamilton?
Smh desperate and ridiculous Bulls.
Let me sound a fair warning to Max fans. You do realise that unlike Lewis, Max is getting criticism from some of his own fans! And justifiably so. If Max is planning anything nefarious in that final race, as in thinking he would benefit from taking out Lewis, fate is gonna deal him that proper kick in the balls I alluded to. Take heed and stop being ignorant or else it will sting even more in coming years!
C'mon doc, give it a rest. The kid had two time penalties, two points added to his license and was ordered to relinquish a position three time during the race. It may be that the MB is simply a faster car,but regardless the reason, doing a Senna is your only chance at the WDC and you have already lost the WCC. You're toast.....again.
A Senna maybe or a 94/97 Schumi Pressure does work both ways though .
We can only hope. I'd like to see the kid win by 2 tenths in a straight up fight, but that's not his strength and fact is that the MB is too damned fast.
MB to fast, seems to making toast of VB in the MB. MV should pulled a bigger gap when the RB was faster
yeah, imagine the lead he'd have if merc didn't take him out at silverstone & budapest!
Question. When was the last time a driver in F1 gets unexpectedly rear ended in an unexpected situation and remained totally quiet over the radio? 🤔. Even more curious given Max's temperament!
Chew on this one.
Spa 98, but anyone whose a proper f1 fan would know that....
A whole 23 years ago....WHOA. Lol. Fly guy, our resident Dingbat of a smart ass.
As a neutral in this debate (I’m a Ferrari fan) Lewis may have deserved to walk away with the win there based on Max’s questionable first corner shenanigans but I think there was blame on both of them for the crash on the straight.
Bottom line, neither of them wanted to hit the DRS line first which resulted in them both dawdling about on the fastest part of the circuit. What would have happened if there had been a few cars right behind Lewis… there would have been a massive pile up that’s what!
Max shouldn’t have hit the brakes so hard but that wouldn’t have happened if Lewis had have gone past him straight away. Yes I understand why Lewis didn’t want to cross the DRS line first but the situation was ridiculous. If it hadn’t have been for the collision I think they may have both literally parked up at one point to argue who was going to cross the DRS line first.
One point, LH didn't know about MV penalty so DRS is a pointless argument. Backed up by the fact that LH would have passed at 200mph whilst MV would have been doing 70mph, never would have accelerated quick enough to catch before the next corner
So... why didn't Lewis pass at 200mph? Thats the question?
Why, instead, did he also slow and slid into the back of Max? Thats what is ridiculous.
Came round the corner and saw MV on the racing line going way slower than he needed to, and, moving from side to side. Not entirely sure but I'd be worried going past someone that mad. Still at least you understood my point about LH and the DRS line
My point is they were both driving too slowly for too long on the main straight. And that was obviously dangerous for a number of reasons no matter who you side with. Neither of them wanted to enter the DRS zone first. Both Max and Lewis has said this after the race.
And this nonsense of Lewis hadn’t been told what was happening by his team... When the guy in front of you slows down you go past them, you do not hang about for 2-3 seconds right behind them. Since when do racing drivers need an invitation or be told to overtake somebody?
I do not how this should be managed in the future but I just don’t think its right that you should have two cars slowing down like that because neither of them wants to get overtaken on the next straight. If that had have happened at a different point in the race we could have had a similar outcome as in Mugello last year at the restart.
What the morons are ignoring Jinksta my friend is the real reason Max was penalized for it. It wasn't just the hard braking. He purposely drifted to the center of the road and made subtle side to side swerves, then braked very hard. Made even more obvious it was purposeful because he did it correctly the second time around and allowed Lewis to pass. The DRS rationale was clearly noted by the Stewards in their ruling as understandable; hence, no blame on Lewis's part.
So good ruling based on facts.
As an aside, even Phillipe Massa who is clearly no fan of Lewis and is supporting Max, had to admit Max deserved a penalty and recommended a 10sec penalty even before the Stewards sent their ruling. So once again, a Max supporter chastising him and not faulting Lewis based on facts, not emotions. Well done.
Go Max.
We have had enough of Hamilton winning.
Max brings excitement. I don't watch F1 for Hamilton , Max is an exciting racer.
Alonso said the same thing.
Hamilton has to be the luckiest bloke in F1, anybody else who runs into the back of the car in front would damage their wing to such an extent they would have to replace it or park up.
For all you Hamilton fans wanting to reply to this don't bother I don't read comments from morons.
Then don’t comment moron
Judith, just this 👏👏👏👏
Linda said it best,
All of this constant Lewis/Mercedes whining and complaining of close calls, what are they talking about? Was it not LEWIS who nearly killed Max and caused the destruction of a RB earlier in the season? And what was the penalty? A whole ten seconds. Big deal, everybody knows that once Max is not on the track, then Lewis generally wins by what looks like twenty minutes.
Interestingly, the stewards made an instantaneous decision on that fateful Sunday. No need to look at telemetry, talk to drivers, nothing really; just call for a disgustingly ridiculous slap on Lewis’ wrist. Actually, in the end it was Max who was penalized for replacing the engine that Lewis destroyed, some system!
Yesterday, with the whole world watching, Lewis rammed into Max instead of simply going around him, so of course it was time to find a way to blame Max. Now the stewards had to delay their decision, investigate, think, review telemetry, talk to both drivers, read their minds, speculate, and, being the Gods that they are, decide whatever they want because that is what they do...
Come on man! Max had been told to let Lewis pass and he tried all he could. It’s admitted that Merc had not informed Lewis and that he was clueless. You would think that fair minded stewards would have factored that in, but of course not and why not?
Now, I don’t know who is going to be World Champion 2021, actually I don’t really care. I just happen to think that Max is the biggest shot into the arm of Formula One since Gilles Villeneuve, Max reminds me of Gilles… Have a look at the Villeneuve-Arnoux battle at the 1979 French GP. Arnoux, jumped out of his car to say that he had just been beaten by the best driver in the world. With Lewis it’s F+++ this Max and F+++ that Max whenever he gets close to him. Some class.
This business that Lewis needs to win without competition has to stop.
'Was it not LEWIS who nearly killed Max and caused the destruction of a RB earlier in the season?'
No, Sir, it was not. Exaggeration does not prove a point.
The race stewards made their decision on the evidence available and shown to them at the time. The further evidence shows they made the correct decision. Forget about the post mortems and the propaganda offered up by Marko, who is a master of propaganda, a dunderhead at best, and a long past his use by date! The judges' decision has been made in the context of the existing rules, and it must stand. Of course, people like Marko who have a vested interest in a different outcome will always have a different view and cry foul!
However, the result has provided the opportunity for an excellent final race. Both drivers with equal points. Makes you wonder though if Max, with 9 wins to date, will try to take both cars out and win by count-back with more wins than Hamilton, who has 8 wins to date! Max is desperate enough to do it!
Smokey, see above. It's called doing a Senna and, yes, it is in the kids mental tool bag. Hopefully, he is afraid of the consequences.
Max was taken out of 2 races by Mercrybabies. He deserves this championship. His car is 6 tenths slower and still able to match Porkilton!
Not to mention baku.
Lewuss doesn't deserve 4 let alone 8. Alot of 'backdoor' deals and sacrifices to the f1 gods methinks!
Guess who are the cry babies now?
RBR and Chrashstappen, looking for every possible loophole to put a stop to Merc and Lewis, including dangerously brake-testing him, in order to take him out. Desperate measures!!!
You sound like you are about to bawl your heart out. You can join then too you know. No need to hold back.
nah, just calling a spade a spade. i'll even commend you on the nickname.
fact is had max not been taken out at silverstone and budapest by merc drivers he'd be a champion right now.
he and red bull are being f**ked over so goliath can win 8 straight championships. it's ridiculous.
He took HIMSELF out in those two races. The kid makes bad Senna-like decisions. Too bad, he really does have great car control. Just don't know if he will ever learn to drive on talent rather than emotion. He seems to be handing the knight another trophy.
Never let the facts get in the way of good story!
You write good fiction.
Do you sell your stories to Mills and Boon?
Hamilton , - they do this, they do that to stop us, his latest one is, hes the king of the tolatebrakers having now accused two rivals of brake testing him, he is literally the boy who cried(to)Wollf and the world .
Max,- yeah it is what it is, i dont really care about that...
Max, George, Lando, Charles,Albon etc the future of f1, Carl soon to be part of the past
Nice the way you worked the totster into that. Yes, bring on the young guns in '22, hopefully in better matched cars. Is there papaya in our future?
I didn't want Torger to feel left out, there's always room for a Mclaren-Porsche Ror
What the morons are ignoring Jinksta my friend is the real reason Max was penalized for it. It wasn't just the hard braking. He purposely drifted to the center of the road and made subtle side to side swerves, then braked very hard
Jax back to his old tricks adjusting the facts to defend his God
In the fia statement, mmm nothing about being in the middle of the track , nothing about subtlety lol swerves, but heh if jax says thats the real reason then it must be
Seem to be many data deficient folks posting on this one based on their bias. Facts based on situation and evidence .....neither driver wanted to cross DRS line first (eliminate the silly system & no crash), car #33 short-braked car #44 who made a tactical error by following directly behind. Lame on both parts but the #33 brake test deserved a penalty and the #44 stupidity got what he earned but lucky with just a bent wing.
Please, Shrop', I'm too gentle a soul. Will you tell please tell these clueless morons to read the FIA report, watch the video and stop espousing fictitious 'facts'.
Unlike my too polite colleague, Read the report MORONS and learn the difference between a corner and a straight, arrrr i feel it will fall on deaf ears still Ror
Just one amendment to your oh so accurate post , Lewis does not make mistakes Hes a God, more like Godley and creme, if you ask me
Googled godly & got actors and academics. I assume that it is a particularly disgusting British delicassie. lol
Yeah, the knight's self described 'experience' must have been on hold. Shrop', do you see a way for the kid to beat him in a fair fight this weekend or should the totster be out buying trophy polish this week?
Tough one to call this w-end ill admit, quali will be high pressure as will run to 1st corner unsurprisingly my money is on Max with Lewis 3 seconds behind , but, it might just come down to luck on the day who knows?
Trophy polish ha ha classic .
I meant godley. Old fingers, weak mind.
Nothing so delicious as English food lol, just me finding something to connect God..aka Lulu with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godley_%26_Creme
I was right then, a British delicassie, but certainly not disgusting.....I was expecting a dessert. So many Brits coming over here to do music in the 60's and 70's that I lose track. Ahh, The British Invasion.
Yeah i saw Felipe with an F, supporting Max from the Ferrari garage, Felipe i say again with an F gave his opinion before the stewards gave there ruling , so cant be facts unless Felipe with an F is also a God.
Jaxster and his disturbed mind, still its entertaining
What, Massa isn't French???
No Apparently not, i know was a bit of a shock to me as well.!!
That really was one of the mostly poorly managed races I have ever seen. I had my rooting interest in Max. But when you saw Lewis after the race, you could tell he just wanted to race. I didn't get the sense there was anything wrong by Max until towards the end. The let by followed almost immediately by a pass followed by that his last bit which I struggle to describe. Obviously, the pressure is high. Let's hope this all gets sorted out on the track and no place out. Obviously, lots of money online line as well as the championship and a bit of history. I don't think I would respond as well to that pressure as either of them. Hamilton sure has experience on his side. Great season though.
Marko seems to be living in a dream world. No brake pressure change? The stewards looked at the data and saw a 69 bar brake pressure change with a 2.4g deceleration. Is Marko blind? The reason that the decisions have been going against Red Bull and Max, is because Red Bull and Max are the ones going over the line, where the rules are concerned. That entire team needs to look themselves in the mirror, instead of complaining that it's unfair.
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